Ben & Addison | Hidden Voices Speak: An Anthology of Home Educated Voices

Autogenerated Transcript

Jesper Conrad: 0:10

Today we're together with Ben and Addison and we might have met them, but we might just have passed them as we have. All of us here have just been at the Home Education Family Festival, hif, here in the summer in UK. So first of all, ben and Addison, welcome, it is good to see you. Hello, hello.

Cecilie Conrad: 0:36

Hello Hi.

Jesper Conrad: 0:38

Yeah, and for the people who are not watching the podcast as a video, but just listening to it, you could maybe think was that younger voices than normally? And the answer is yes, these are our youngest guests ever. Yes, these are our youngest guests ever. So the reason we want to speak with you is because you also gave a talk at HEF. I unfortunately didn't see. That was about your book. Hidden Voices Speak no-transcript.

Ben Feliz: 1:21

Ben Knappelman. We both live in London, I'm in Brixton and I'm 14.

Jesper Conrad: 1:26

Henry Suryawirawan. And then what about you, addison? How old are you?

Addison Harding: 1:30

Addison Young. I am 13. When I first started the book I was 12, but about half a month ago I turned 13, and I live in South London.

Jesper Conrad: 1:44

What did you give a talk about?

Addison Harding: 1:48

What was it all about? It was about Hidden Voice to Speak, like talking about the process of creating it and just like the way the whole thing worked, just like thinking of the idea and the process of making it and all of that and our experiences, kind of basically that.

Jesper Conrad: 2:15

Yeah, can you share what Hidden Voices Speak is for the people who don't know of the book?

Addison Harding: 2:22

Well, so Hidden Voices Speak is an anthology where a bunch of home educators kind of got together like writing about our experience as a way to kind of make a reference point to the people in Parliament so that they can use it to know more about what home education is, because the way they talk about it so far is just a bit unknowing mildly said yeah well, how brave yeah I think it's quite interesting.

Cecilie Conrad: 3:07

We start this podcast by asking about your age we've never done that before, but because all of our other guests have been not minors and obviously there's a point to you guys being minors. But the whole concept of having this podcast is the exact same as most of our other podcast interviews. Someone wrote a book and then we talked to them about it. So I just want to pay my respect to the fact that this has something to do with you being younger, but that's mostly because that's you've got a special perspective, being the children's generation, the actually home educated, not the home educating and I find it very interesting. I want to read the book. I'm yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 3:52

Because I haven't done so yet, though.

Jesper Conrad: 3:56

Often, the people we talk with are people who are, as Cecilia is saying, doing the homeschooling and can have a lot of views, and we have been in doubt if we should invite voices on of people who are home educated and being like so how is it so?

Cecilie Conrad: 4:14

now it's happening.

Jesper Conrad: 4:16

Thank you for doing this.

Cecilie Conrad: 4:18

Can I ask you so this is an anthology of stories from the perspective of the home? Educated younger.

Addison Harding: 4:27

Yeah, so kind of feel about it and how it's been for them. And it also has the parents and how they feel. And then it also has experts who know a lot about home education and their views and then like unpublished voices where people have said why the bill is bad to the education committee so several times you said it's people speaking.

Cecilie Conrad: 5:12

Is it because it's an interview book?

Addison Harding: 5:14

It's not really an interview book. People have put in what they think about home education and the bill, but in a way it's just a bunch of people expressing their views through the book, in a way.

Jesper Conrad: 5:33

On one of the last days on HIF we had our good friend Randall Hardy over for a cup of tea and he is not happy about the bill. But for many people out there they don't know what the bill is about or why it is not cool. I don't know if you, edison or Ben can explain briefly about it. I mean I couldn't. So if you can't, then all is good. I can't really explain the about it. I mean I couldn't. So if you can't, then all is good.

Ben Feliz: 5:58

I can't really explain the full build, just because there's so much to it. I could explain some of my points that I think are bad with it, like I couldn't summarize the entire build.

Cecilie Conrad: 6:10

No, no, no, no, no, but actually, the points that you are focused on are the points that we would want to hear about.

Ben Feliz: 6:15

One of the main problems is the register that's included in the bill for home educated children, and one of the main things that I'm focused on is it says that both parents must be on the register, which will be a problem for people who are victims of domestic abuse and that sort of thing, but their court cases are continuing, so the abuser has not yet been convicted, so they would still kind of have to be on the register and eligible for the information on the register.

Cecilie Conrad: 6:47

So we've heard about this thing of the register and it's interesting. We have an international audience, people from all over the planet listening. What is it? 100 countries are listening to this podcast. So you have a political point of view which makes a lot of sense to me. And we come from different countries, you guys and us, and we've discussed the register and the bill with a few Brits over the summer we spent here in England, because where we come from back in the 80s I think it was, the register was established in our country Everybody and it had nothing to do with home education, because it's a very small movement in our country Back in the 80s you had maybe like nine families at home, I think. No, it was just a register for everyone.

Cecilie Conrad: 7:30

So in Denmark, everyone gets a personal identification number at the moment of birth. Within the first three minutes you're registered and there is no way around it. You can, of course, free birth at home. It is legal. Obviously. It's your body. You can do with it what you want, but you cannot move through life in our very small and very controlled and systematic country. It's a very small country and everything is very digitalized. So it's interesting from this. So I've had a personal identification number most of my life. My children had them within the first three minutes of birth, and I find it highly problematic. But I have also, at the same time, given in, because there is no way around it, literally no way around it. It's like breathing I have to breathe even if there's pollution in the air. In the same way, I can't have children without giving them this number. It's just impossible. So it's interesting to see how a country is now fighting it and why it's fighting it.

Jesper Conrad: 8:33

All the home educating children in my country are it?

Cecilie Conrad: 8:34

All the room-educating children in my country are registered, all of them, everyone's registered, with both parents, because that's how your basic registration is. It holds the information of who are your birth parents or adopted parents, your legal parents, basically. So I find it funny to talk politics because it's not my main thing, but can you explain, or do you want to explain how? How does this feel like a pressure, especially specifically for the home educated? I understand the domestic violence problem, but that's actually it has nothing to do with education. I don't think there is more domestic violence in home educating families. Probably most likely there is less. So in what way do you think this is problematic for home educators specifically?

Addison Harding: 9:28

Well, I think that personally I mean I haven't read the entire bill I think it would be weird if I have I was just asking about this specific thing of being registered.

Cecilie Conrad: 9:44

Yeah, how you've not been registered. There's no list of home-educated children and there's no mandatory register of everyone in your country, and this is what I'm trying to roll out. Now they want to throw all the homemade kids. In what way is this actually a problem?

Addison Harding: 10:02

Well, I just think that the fact that in just five clauses for us it's just kind of worried, tons of things. I mean the thing is is that with going out of school, you have to like, you have to speak to your local authority and they have to give their approval and they have to say that it is in the child's best needs. But how do they know it's in the child's best needs? And then when, even if you are home educated and you manage to like and you manage to get through, they can come whenever they want into your house and they have to decide if it's in the child's best interests to decide if they keep on like home educating or not. And like nowhere in the bill do they ask like what does the child think? And like I mean it's.

Addison Harding: 11:08

I guess even if the system was perfect and everything worked, then what about the data? The data has been hacked before in the past being out there in this software. Imagine, like some I mean I don't think most hackers are friendly people who hack things just for fun. I mean I think if they got hold of the information, they'd probably use it for like I don't know bad things, and it's just like yeah, and it doesn't say what they're not allowed to use with the data. They can pass it on if they want to.

Addison Harding: 11:53

I guess it's. I mean, and that's just keeping the local authority don't slip up somewhere and just like I think. I genuinely think that if the local authority came into my house right now and looked around, that they would think that I'm not having a suitable education, even though every single time I speak to my MP about the problems, they just say well, it's not like it's going to affect you at all, you seem like perfectly good at home educators. But I think that if the bill goes through, I'm going to come up to him once I'm in school and say, see, see.

Cecilie Conrad: 12:48

So yeah, just yeah there's a little thing to say about it, but it's really funny if someone walked into your house right now to check if your homemade was good enough and you're being interviewed by an international podcast because you wrote a book and you can't find that good enough.

Jesper Conrad: 13:10

That would actually be hilarious or you have to sit down and do your math. Oh, I agree, but it is one of the things that we see when we have talked with a way where you are in some ways, I think, dehumanizing the parents in saying to them, basically, we do not believe you can care for your own child, and that just baffles me every time that we think that people can't take care of their own children.

Cecilie Conrad: 13:59

I kind of want to be the devil's advocate. Could we imagine a world where this might be very naive, like my little pony style, but could we imagine a world where the laws would protect us?

Ben Feliz: 14:14

Yes, but not with the current people in jail.

Cecilie Conrad: 14:17

True, true, yes I'm just trying because we sound like we just know we went out of the system and we're anarchists and yes we are, but in a way, if the laws were protecting us, if we had the right to home educate, if it gave us protection from like, gave us options instead of restricting us, if it, I feel like, in theory, in our country, home education is in the constitution and that's the reason it's one of the few countries in Europe where you can still legally home educate and we're not under any threat by the government. Well, we are, but they cannot take the right to home educate away because it's in the Constitution. And I think, oh man, could you build a great system on top of that? You could give home educators special rights. You could give them discounts on, let's say, books and bus tickets. You could give them the same rights as schools, for museums, museums are free in England, they're not in Denmark.

Cecilie Conrad: 15:21

There are so many things that could be done that would make the life better. You could make, like, a tax reduction for home educating families, because you're not using the school system and you have a hard time. You know working and home editing. So in a way, you're totally right, ben. It's about who's in charge and what is their agenda, because it's not. I don't like rules and laws, but now that we have them, they could work for us. It just feels like they're working against us and they are.

Addison Harding: 15:59

Yeah, that is what hopefully could happen and that's what I think anyone wants to happen. But in the government's point of view, the home education system right now isn't working, so they have to fix it, but it is but.

Cecilie Conrad: 16:55

But what about the home educating system? Do you think the government does not?

Addison Harding: 17:01

like I don't think. I think they don't like the fact that, like, I don't think they like the fact that, I mean, they understand what goes on in school, but I think they don't like the fact that when you're home educated, it's hard for them to understand what goes on. In a way, like for them, they kind of have got to the point where they think, well, if they're not going to school, how come, and what are they learning? Are they being raised badly? And I guess that's what they're doing right now. They're trying to find out and they're trying to, in a way, help us, but in a way they're just not helping us. We just need to be given some space from the local authority and the government. We just need to educate ourselves in ways that we want. To Ben, do you agree with that? Yeah, to Ben, do you agree with that?

Jesper Conrad: 18:13

or yeah, I would. One of the things I find unfortunately hilarious is that I at some point look up the numbers from the school system in Denmark where they talked about how big a percentage, when they finished I think it was 8th grade, were on a satisfactory level, both mature-wise and in preparedness to take a further education, and the numbers were that they were proud enough that they were up around 75, which means that one in four is failing the school system.

Jesper Conrad: 18:55

if you turn it around and look at it and I do not believe that one in four of the homeschooled community is failing meaning learning less than we hope they would, being less mature than we hope they would. So I think that you are quite right in the view that if they do not know what's going on, that you are quite right in the view that if they do not know what's going on, then they maybe don't understand it. But if they put the same judgment on the public school system as it sounds like they want to do on the home ed, then it would be a miss. One thing I would like to go into is the book title Hidden Voices Speak. So why does it have that title?

Ben Feliz: 19:42

So the reason we chose that title is quite a lot of time the government. Because children aren't on a register when they're home educated, or at least the one like some of them are. Because, like some of them are on it for a particular reason. They call them hidden children and we kind of want to say like they're not hidden here they're kind of they're expressing their views. Yeah, ben did you think of the title? By the way?

Addison Harding: 20:10

I can't remember maybe, but I'm not sure yeah, I just can't remember where it came from. It was just like bit of like a sudden stroke of inspiration, I guess yeah, it's a really good title.

Jesper Conrad: 20:22

When I didn't know.

Cecilie Conrad: 20:23

The government called it hidden children in England.

Addison Harding: 20:25

That's interesting invisible children, I think.

Ben Feliz: 20:29

I think it's hidden, but I'm not entirely sure or falling through the cracks yeah, that's another line they use.

Addison Harding: 20:35

Oh, yeah, I hear that a lot when my mum Not entirely true or falling through the cracks yeah, that's another line they use. Oh, yeah, I hear that a lot when my mum writes her entry in the book. She took inspiration in sending the government a postcard from through the cracks.

Jesper Conrad: 20:51

Nice. So are you also sharing your personal stories in the book, in the anthology?

Ben Feliz: 21:02

Addison, is I more talk about my current personal life? I don't talk about my previous personal life, though if we did make a second edition, I might add an entry about my previous personal life. So how is it to be home educated?

Jesper Conrad: 21:15

Though if we did make a second edition, I might add an entry about my previous life, yeah, so how is it to be home educated?

Addison Harding: 21:22

Fun, I guess it's just like. It's like you can explore your interests, like at school. In the past, like amongst other things which happened, I have had days where I get taught something and it's a really fun lesson, and then the next day we're going back to something else and it's like you get to do that really fun lesson every day, where you get to explore what interests you in a way, and it's like it's just you get to explore your interests and you don't have to, in a way.

Cecilie Conrad: 22:10

I think it was a very, very good example or like mental picture you painted there, where it's true that in school sometimes there can be this occasional teacher or this class, or even maybe this week, this process of something in history class or something in math that just ignites your brain and you're like, but the thing is it keeps changing and you only have it like for one hour on Wednesdays. And when you home educate you can go for that spark all the time. And if the spark is not there, then maybe just chill out because you know you're allowed to have fun and not necessarily go for academic achievement all the time. I think it's that was a pretty one. It's like having that lesson every day all the time. And what about you, ben? How do you feel? I'm sure our listeners are so curious to hear the voices of home-educated children. What's your experience, you think?

Ben Feliz: 23:09

So my experience is a bit different to Alison's, because I'm educated my entire life, so I've never gone to school. So for me it's like I feel like it's kind of a bit similar to what Addison was saying, though I don't have the school perspective. I feel like I'm able to like do everything that I would be doing in a school, but I'm able to do it in a way that suits me, like in science when we're explaining experiments and like how different compounds work and our teacher kind of like, um, because we go to a group so like we have our teacher there, um, and he like actually does the experiments in front of us, so we can kind of see we get a tangible view of the experiment.

Addison Harding: 24:02

He explains a lot of stuff. Go to classes together.

Ben Feliz: 24:08

Yeah, we do a lot of classes together, yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 24:12

So the big difference between doing classes as a home-educated child and as a school child, I suppose, is that it's voluntary. Yeah, you decided you want the science class. I think a lot of business will think about this. So did the parents decide the science class or did the children decide the science class?

Cecilie Conrad: 24:34

We decided decide the science class or did the children decide the science class? We just thought and that the same, the same question will also probably be in the mind of a lot of listeners, who decided that they should write a book about it, about the bill and about the perspectives of the home educated. So I'm jumping away again from your personal experience. Uh, maybe I'm doing that too. Maybe we can go back to it, but I'm just. I think we need to ask that question.

Addison Harding: 25:02

So where did the idea come from, you think? Well, I guess it was kind of a sudden stroke of inspiration. In a way I was. I just wanted to. I mean, I didn't know much about Bill when I went to a protest on the 8th of May.

Jesper Conrad: 25:29

March.

Addison Harding: 25:31

Sorry, yeah, and yeah, I don't think I would have gone, but I needed something to take my mind off things, so thank goodness for that. The pet had just died. A what A pet, what.

Ben Feliz: 25:56

But, anyway.

Addison Harding: 25:57

Yeah, so I went to the protest and was glad to see all my friends and I was like I just was glad to keep my mind busy. And then I kind of felt a bit of the injustice of the whole thing. And I think there were like sorts of speakers or something because, um, uh, juliette inglis was like going around saying to everyone, like offering to to speak, and I thought, well, why not speak? I don't know much, but I know why home education is good. So I went up there and I spoke and Well, in a way, that kind of made me feel like I mean, I was being listened to in ways, but like I just felt like the whole injustice of the whole thing wasn't being listened to, because in the background there was like this really big protest also happening and I saw them like protesting and one person climbed up onto the top of Big Ben and like they had to get helicopters down and they would get like all that happening. And I was just thinking, well, of course they're what they were protesting about was important, but I just felt like our small protest, like I just wanted like a way to have a way to express my views and show what I felt, but I didn't really. And then I tried to explain how I felt to everyone, to explain how I felt to everyone and in a way I kind of just said it and I talked about it and it was a bit of like a brainstorm in a way.

Addison Harding: 28:04

But in the end we kind of thought, like of the idea of Hidden Voices, beat, and I was like like a book or something in a way. Voices be and I was like like a book or something in a way, and then after that I just thought I would never hear from it again. But in a way, that's how home education is like you have an idea and you get supported to the end in a way. And I got supported. And here I am now. Well, not I, we worked on a book, it was a team effort. Ben designed the cover. I wait a bit, everybody wait a bit, and after all that that it was published and yeah, I guess, that's how it came about it's super awesome.

Jesper Conrad: 29:03

I like ideas and I like making ideas a reality, and I did something similar when I was very young, but older than you guys. I was 16 and made an amateur feature film and one thing is making the product, but the whole learning journey of it, everything you learn along the way, that is it's pure gold and that is one of it's like the essence of home ed. In the same ways that you have an idea, you follow it through and you learn. So much by creating a work of art or a product like a book is the reason I wanted to interview you was because we were at HEF, where you also gave a talk, and at HEF I talked with our good friend Kavita and I was asking her oh, I need an idea for who we could interview and she suggested YouTube. Was this your first HEF for both of you?

Addison Harding: 30:08

So, yeah, it was my first.

Ben Feliz: 30:11

I've had Gordon previously, but but not for quite a long time. I went pre-COVID, but then stopped going, and then this was my first for quite a while.

Jesper Conrad: 30:21

Yeah, Can we talk about HIF and what it does for people? I know what it do for me as an adult and I can share that. First, I just love seeing my kids and all the other children hang out for a week, go and do a lot of stuff and I like to see. What I really love about going to HEF is when I look at all the home educated children there. Then they seem very relaxed and in themselves. It's like it's a group of people who know who they are. There's not tooling in the corner or weird things happening. They're just nice towards each other and is having fun for a week. I don't know if it's the same when you are there, but that's what I see from my end of it.

Addison Harding: 31:59

Yeah, it's pretty much that I mean yeah, I think I want to, I would love to go again. It was, yeah, I really loved to face it away. Unfortunately, I had to leave early, though, because my dad had to get back to work, so I missed the end bit, but, like at the beginning and middle, it was just like great, I was getting to do all that things.

Ben Feliz: 32:32

What about you, ben? So I ended up staying for the whole time and I really enjoyed kind of meeting lots of new people from maybe we have different views about stuff and political standings and all of that, but we were able to talk with each other as kind of equals and as friends, instead of like trying to form into groups based on what we believe. Like, of course, like if there's a massive difference of opinion, like you don't hang out together, but like if if you have a relatively similar opinion to someone, then you still kind of you're still kind of able to hang out with them and talk helpfully about different like issues that you care about nice it's a very beautiful community.

Cecilie Conrad: 33:22

It really is. Yeah, I think I have actually two more questions about the book and then I think we should wrap up. Yeah, sorry, I just want to make it clear for the listeners is is this book? Would this book be an interesting read for those who are not part of the English government? Is it also an anthology just sharing about how it is to be home educated in England these days, in this day and age, and what it looks like to have that kind of life? Is it relevant for everyone who are curious into the life of home educators, or is that mostly pushing against the political agenda?

Ben Feliz: 34:10

yeah, I think it would be an interesting read for anyone, and definitely for anyone who wants to understand more about home education.

Addison Harding: 34:17

It is mainly aimed at government officials, but I think definitely people would, those who want to, who are against the bill, but it's also about those people who just are curious about what is this home education, what's like, what is it, and like they kind of find out and, yeah, I think that it's a bit of an insight into people's lives, the life of home educators, and you get the picture. Of course, the main theme occurring is the bill, but you can definitely read it without knowing about the bill, like you could definitely read it without knowing about the bill, and it's mainly about her education, which if you find interesting, then you can read it Definitely.

Jesper Conrad: 35:25

The stories, the voices we hear speak. Can you share a little about who it is More like? Is it a lot from the children's perspective, or is it adult perspective, or is it a mix? Where are we?

Addison Harding: 35:43

It's a mix. I think there's like might be slightly more adults than children, but then there's like tons of children as well, like I think Ben would you say. There was like 23 children.

Ben Feliz: 35:54

I think what I would say is I'm not entirely sure. I think there are actually more children, but it looks like there are more adults because in general the adults ones are longer.

Cecilie Conrad: 36:04

They just babble on yeah yeah, they babble on. Interesting. Are you planning to write more books?

Ben Feliz: 36:11

Well, I am. I'm in the middle of writing some fiction.

Cecilie Conrad: 36:14

Interesting.

Ben Feliz: 36:16

And I believe we are thinking of making a second edition of it.

Cecilie Conrad: 36:20

Do you want to talk a little about your process as an author of fiction?

Ben Feliz: 36:25

My process as an author of fiction is just like so. I take a lot of inspiration from authors that I read, because I do a lot of reading books as well, which is actually quite a funny story, because I didn't really get into reading until I was about nine, but then I read Harry Potter straight off the bat.

Jesper Conrad: 36:47

It's a really good place to start.

Cecilie Conrad: 36:48

It's often the story, isn't it, isn't it?

Jesper Conrad: 36:50

Yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 36:51

One of our children who's only started reading when he was 13 and he's now never leaving his book. That's the beauty of home education. So from being an avid reader and enjoying reading books to venturing into writing a book, so that there's a gap there. I feel like, yeah, what happened?

Ben Feliz: 37:12

I, so my mom teaches our English classes, so I thought that helped. And then, just like, I often have ideas for like stories and I wanted to kind of write them down, so I started writing it and we also have a class where we write tips and, yeah, I've come up with quite a lot of ideas. I don't know if I'll actually finish all of the series, because there are quite a lot.

Addison Harding: 37:38

You thought of 53 ideas for books.

Ben Feliz: 37:42

It might be 53. It might be more by now.

Cecilie Conrad: 37:45

But life is long.

Addison Harding: 37:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 37:47

So we usually say in our family for every 10 projects you start, you'll succeed at least with one. I'm not saying you couldn't succeed with nine. Yeah, it's just to exceed at least with one I'm not saying you couldn't succeed with the other nine.

Ben Feliz: 38:02

Yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 38:02

It's just to splurge it out there. So yeah, it's just interesting to speak to another young author about how are you, are you enjoying it? Writing?

Ben Feliz: 38:11

Do you have a?

Cecilie Conrad: 38:11

system to it.

Ben Feliz: 38:13

It can be a bit tough but like, if I get stuck I just move on to the next one and kind of write until I have inspiration for the one I'm working on and then I go back to that write some stuff perfect.

Cecilie Conrad: 38:26

With more than 50 projects, you should have at least. Yeah, great. So where do we? How do we look at? Are you? Can you send us an email when you publish? Just send us an email when you publish the first.

Ben Feliz: 38:38

Yeah, I will.

Cecilie Conrad: 38:39

We could do another interview.

Jesper Conrad: 38:42

So, Edison, if people want to read this book, where do they find it? How do they find it?

Addison Harding: 38:48

Well, they can find it on Amazon. The price is reasonable in my opinion, it's like £8.50 or something, although if you want to get it, you can get it on Kindle as well through Amazon, but on Kindle it's completely free. But for those of you which is watching, watching, if you are going to get it, please don't get it from kindle, because for us to produce a kindle edition, because we did it through amazon, we have to pay a pound, so it kind of makes it hard for us to um yeah keep it going, but and those of you consider sending one to your MP as well- yes, that's a good plan, but

Cecilie Conrad: 39:44

people do want to get it on their Kindle. As me, I'm based out of the van, so I try to read everything on a Kindle. Do you have some sort of buy me a coffee any way to contribute to your project.

Jesper Conrad: 39:58

Or you buy a physical copy and send it to an MP.

Cecilie Conrad: 40:02

I could send a physical copy to an MP and download the Kindle version to itself.

Jesper Conrad: 40:06

Yes.

Cecilie Conrad: 40:06

That's the solution. That's what we recommend If you want to Kindle for themselves.

Jesper Conrad: 40:11

Yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 40:12

Good plan.

Jesper Conrad: 40:13

Yes, Ben and Addison, it has been a pleasure having you here and I hope that many more people will read the book. Hear the voices that are no longer hidden speak about how it is to actually be home educated, instead of being claimed as being fallen through the cracks or whatever the MPs claims when they talk about what they don't know. And hiding. And hiding yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 40:44

We're not hiding.

Jesper Conrad: 40:46

None of them we know are actually hiding. They are very vocal and very out there. Thanks a lot. It was wonderful having you on.

Addison Harding: 40:57

Yeah Well, see you, bye.

Ben Feliz: 41:00

Okay.