126: Vanessa Woozley | Single Mom, Van Life, and Worldschooling

Autogenerated Transcript

Jesper Conrad: 0:10

Today more about that. First of all, I want to say a warm welcome. Thank you for taking the time.

Vanessa Woozley : 0:26

Thank you for having me.

Jesper Conrad: 0:29

So let's go back to Vienna. We attended a World School pop-up hub in Vienna, vienna, and our neighbor at the campsite where we were were you and your lovely daughter in a van. And one of the questions we often get about world schooling is this oh, it's actually people in my. The way I look at it sometimes I think that people are maybe making excuses for themselves. We are getting a. Oh, you can do it because you're two and Cecilia can be at home. And often I say to them hey, you know what? I've met a lot of moms out there world schooling with their kids. It is actually doable, and I got the question once again recently. I saw one asking but how do I get started? I'm, as a mom, alone with my kids, how do I get started? And then I was like I really liked Vanessa, let's invite her and ask her. So let's turn back time. How did you get started? What happened in your life that made you want to trot the path of traveling and also having your daughter at home?

Vanessa Woozley : 1:39

So I guess it all happens in stages, doesn't it often? So we've always traveled since my daughter was tiny, started in Europe and then we did long distance, longer travel. When she was about three, we used to go to India every Christmas and spend three, four weeks there, and people thought I was a bit bonkers then, but I don't know. I have always had that feeling that I wanted to travel and I've often felt safer in most other countries than I have in England often, so I just don't let things hold me back. In fact it was funny. I went to Morocco this year, and it doesn't happen very often but this guy said to me, how on earth can you travel without having a man or a partner with you? And I said well, what am I going to do? Wait, wait for one. I'm not going to let my circumstances hold me back. I just I love traveling and yeah, it just wasn't an option to stay home lockdown.

Vanessa Woozley : 2:55

I think a lot of people did. I saw what she was learning at school and I was a little bit horrified at how dry and boring it was, and so I wasn't going to make her do the things that she was learning, because I just thought this was awful and we sort of did it in steps. So actually we decided to go to a Steiner school. So we moved house, went to a Steiner school Rudolf Steiner. She loved it there. It was great. But I've always had the travel bug in me. So after we'd done that for a year I was like let's try homeschooling. So we did that and we've been traveling ever since, for the last three years, I guess, a bit more full time.

Jesper Conrad: 3:32

And then the question we get is but how is it possible? You are just one person and one child. How do you make ends meet? How is it doable at all?

Vanessa Woozley : 3:44

I guess maybe it would be different if I had lots of kids. You know there are different situations. I have one and I think what really changed me and it was something that I was really nervous about, actually about taking my daughter out to school was that I was going to have to do all the schooling and that I would have to be supporting her and it would take all my time. But actually she became really self-motivated because we just let her learn what she wanted to learn. So we found some amazing programs with loads of different subjects and I just let her try things so she could try. We use one called Learn Laugh Play and they're like three pounds a class the starting price, so they're really amazingly inexpensive. And I was just like just try loads of them and she sort of fell in love with certain subjects and teachers. I was just like just try loads of them and she sort of fell in love with certain subjects and teachers. And since then I've never had to sort of ask her to do schoolwork or monitor her, because it's been her following, her passion and what she's interested in. So it's always difficult to know because you don't have other children to compare it to, and it certainly wasn't my experience at school, but I like to think it's because she's actually fully interested in what she's learning. So that frees me up with time to work. So I try and work around her schedule a little bit so while she's studying I'm working.

Vanessa Woozley : 5:05

What's also good about the program that we're doing is she can join it live, but also the classes are available for two weeks after. So it means that they they do them. But it also meant it gave us the flexibility to travel and she can just catch up when she can, because obviously sometimes we were on the road and traveling and that didn't always work and yeah, and then the same for me. So I would just fit in. My client calls around being stationary somewhere and around her schooling and you just find a way. Don you find a rhythm if you, if you love it and you and it's your calling, I don't know you just make the routine work for what you want to do and what you love yeah, word I think.

Cecilie Conrad: 5:48

But that's really. I mean, we get the same kinds of questions and and it's, I think, the general picture from our experience and when we talk to other travelers is, if it's important enough, you find a way. And sometimes you have to be very adaptable and very crazy and do things in very different ways and sometimes maybe not sleep so much for that week, but whatever. And then at the end, as you said, you, we have different circumstances, all of us, you have one set of circumstances and you made things work inside of that. I've seen single moms travel with more than one child. So yeah, it's just if it's important enough. I think that's the conclusion.

Vanessa Woozley : 6:35

Yeah, I think so too, and actually, you know, I often get the comment oh my goodness, you're so brave, but actually it would feel far more. It doesn't feel like a choice. It would feel far more stifling to be at home and stationary, that would make me unhappy. So actually it's a feel brave. It just feels like I've got to do this. This is what brings me joy, this is what makes me happy, this is where I'm at my happiest. I work better, my daughter's happier, and find more community, more like-minded community. So so, yeah, absolutely right, you just find a way to do it.

Jesper Conrad: 7:05

I would like to talk a little more about bravery and fear and handling insecurity, because that is also one of the things people say to us is, oh, you must be so brave, and I actually sometimes feel very insecure about our life and what we do. But I know that I can work through whatever challenges in front of me. That's one of the things I've learned of this life. But sometimes when I look at what's going on I can be like, oh my God, what is the right next choice? But how do you work with it in your life? Or are you just very content in that life will treat you with love and kindness?

Vanessa Woozley : 7:54

A little bit. Yes, I do think traveling makes you more resilient, for sure. Nothing quite goes to plan and you know I don't want to paint it totally rose-tinted glasses, because there are situations that have come up. I drive a van, like you guys, and I remember when I first got into Greece and we're trying to find a driving place in the middle of the night and we got stuck in the mud on the edge of a road and the front tires of the van were sinking into the mud. My daughter actually was more panicked than me. I don't know.

Vanessa Woozley : 8:31

I think I've learned over the years. I've just learned like it always goes out. You just got to keep the calm. You can't do anything about the circumstances. You'll find a way. We did have to walk an hour in the dark with just my phone torch to a farm, met the most beautiful Greek farmers who didn't speak a word of English and they eventually towed us out. So you know it's not like things don't. Circumstances don't always go your way and things do come up and happen, but they make the best traveling stories. You know we can laugh about it now. Maybe we weren't laughing at the time, but you do learn that actually what I have found through traveling is, you see, the best in humanity. People generally on the road are really happy to help you out.

Vanessa Woozley : 9:18

I've had things go wrong in the van many, many times In fact. I think when I was with you guys in Vienna, my water pump broke and we managed to find a neighbor who helped me fit one. So, yeah, I guess that's what I don't get nervous about these things, because I always think there's nearly always someone who will help you out if you look at things with the right mentality. Get me wrong, but I have learned that actually, normally when I'm feeling a little bit nervous about going to a new location, it normally means it's going to be the best experience. So it's a little bit of sort of feeling the fear and doing it anyway.

Vanessa Woozley : 10:03

I've always had that feeling of like oh, that little bit of trepidation where I'm going somewhere brand brand new, and normally when people are a little bit like, oh, are you not worried about going to such and such a country? I certainly like that about Morocco, um, because lots of people have these preconceptions and actually it was one of the safest, most beautiful, amazing cultures that I've been to. So, yeah, I, I guess I don't let the fear hold me back is is the honest answer to that, but I I do feel it a little bit sometimes too yeah, but that's the thing about being courageous, is it's.

Cecilie Conrad: 10:38

It's not about not feeling the fear yeah that's a misconception of courage. It's not that you're not fearful or nervous or can feel some sort of butterfly or worry, or at least some thoughts about what am I really doing here. It's the doing it anyway. That's courage and I think you can. As you said, you become resilient. You also become more courageous. You have that. As you mentioned, you're cool in the situation. I think we have that too, and it's not because we're very cool, it's because we've tried so many things. Now.

Vanessa Woozley : 11:19

The panic doesn't help, does it?

Cecilie Conrad: 11:21

It's not going to help if we freak out and if we start fighting about it, or it's okay, shit, just hit the fan and you breathe a little bit and then you think a little bit and then you wipe off a little bit of shit and then you think a little bit more, and then at the end of the day, you always resolve it one way or the other. Yeah, has anything. So what would you say, have surprised you the most? Was there some troubles or obstacles in the van life? Single, long traveling home school set up that many people dream about, that you hadn't seen coming? I'm not saying problems, but just some things to manage that.

Vanessa Woozley : 12:09

Oh, there's that uh, nothing that I couldn't resolve. I would say the biggest challenge is probably things going wrong on the van that comes up. But I would say it's the same as they go wrong in a house. You know, that's not really any different. You live in a house, this is my situation, and then I've had the boiler go wrong on Christmas Eve. It's the same, it's just that for me something goes wrong in the van and normally I'm in a nice warm location and I'm quite stationary and I'm there and somebody can help me. So I've never felt particularly challenged. I suppose the biggest challenge for me is is sometimes the internet with working. Probably I need to get starlink like you guys have got. I will get around to it. Maybe one day that would probably help Especially in.

Vanessa Woozley : 12:59

England Say that again, especially in England. Yeah, sometimes England is worse than some of the countries I've been to. Sometimes I just have had better internet, actually some of the best places, like Morocco. I've had some of the best internet in Morocco than I have back home, ironically the best internet in Morocco than I have back home, ironically. So yeah, I guess those are, but only small ones, so I can't say the challenge has been any real different than they have been at home.

Cecilie Conrad: 13:24

So no surprises really.

Vanessa Woozley : 13:27

No, I say I suppose what did feel like a big challenge when I first started traveling was finding community for my daughter.

Vanessa Woozley : 13:33

That was probably a big challenge when I first started traveling was finding community for my daughter. That was probably our biggest challenge, because I love traveling and we'd go to these amazing and I'd take her to places that she was interested in. So we do Greece. She loved Greek mythology but and we'd sort of find a few places with actually some of my friends perhaps not kids her own age and then we started doing some world schooling hubs and we met your kids and we've met lots of other teen kids and that's really changed things for her because it was finding like-minded children as well. I think it's sometimes difficult to relate to children back home because the the way that we live is a little bit different, so they need to find things that they can relate to a little bit more. So, yes, I would say that has been actually probably the biggest challenge for me, because when my daughter's happy, I'm happy, and actually that was kind of finding the missing formula that we sound like now.

Jesper Conrad: 14:28

It made me think about how life was when I grew up. How life was when I grew up, I think when I look back on it now I can see that, yes, in school I was in a group of 28, 24 people around the same age. But there's a fun thing about the word relationship. It is the one part of it that is to do with do you relate? Are you on the same frequency? Do you hang out? Do you actually really enjoy the people you're around? And for me, I maybe had one friend during my school time.

Jesper Conrad: 15:07

I had a lot of social interaction, but it wasn't the deep, long talks and I don't see anyone from back then. Those relationships with friends first came later, when it was more based on a choice of maybe even workplace. But there was something in common between us and I think that is one of the changes I see with our kids who are not in school. When they meet these other teens who are also not in school and when they are kind of on the same frequency, they just vibe really good together, like and talk and talk, and talk. And I see another kind of relationship than I had when I grew up and I can almost be jealous of what they have, because I think I got oh yeah, the episode that came out today when we're recording this was with the wonderful guy is with the wonderful guy, jack Stewart, who talks about social appetite suppressant, and I think that sometimes being in a school setting also can quench your thirst of the deep, really good dialogues you can have with people.

Jesper Conrad: 16:26

And I wasn't out there searching for people to have deep dialogue with, because it had always the thirst for the real good, deep dialogues. But like, is it called quenched when you quench it first? I'm not sure on the word yeah, but by being in settings with so many people and when I look at it today, look back at it, I can be like, oh my God, I must have been so socially overwhelmed when I came back home from school. And from school I went to competition, swimming, even more people, the same age, always this high, high level of energy being together, and I really like to see, of course, their teenagers as well, our young ones. But I think they're very quiet in their relationships in a very much more mature way than I was when I was 16, 17 or 18. It was insecure, compared to what I see now.

Vanessa Woozley : 18:06

Yeah, I agree with that. I think there's a lot of things going on with kids possibly who've been to school and the difference between kids that haven't or aren't going to school, you're right. One is that I think they find their people, which actually you're right it takes us a while to kind of find our tribe of like-minded people. And I also think the dynamic changes with adults as well, because in the school mentality, particularly in England, you have this kind of fear of adults and teacher because of the way that they are, they're speaking to the kids and you don't see that in our environment, in the world schooling and homeschooling, because you've got so much more interaction with parents and your friends' parents and you're interacting them on a much more equal basis, without the fear, and so I see much more confident kids. So they're not only confident with the ones that are around them because they've met more like-minded kids, but they're also much more confident around adults.

Vanessa Woozley : 19:11

I don't feel any difference in conversation Like I can talk to your kids and they're also much more confident around adults. I don't feel any difference in conversation like I can talk to your kids and they are, they're great, you know, they just talk to you like a normal human being, where you don't see that with with children who go to school normally they're like oh, hi, you know they're a little bit shy. Hi, mrs Thingy, or you know you're always Scarlett's mom, you know you're not, you're not. They're not having a proper conversation about life and what's happening with them and where they're going. And it's lovely, it's lovely to see that. I think that's how. I wish that for every kid.

Jesper Conrad: 19:41

Yeah, Did you see any changes in your daughter after you took her out or in your relationship with her? Because it's kind of fairly recent with COVID. So you remember the before and the after, I think maybe.

Vanessa Woozley : 19:56

I think that was the biggest thing for me was the change in how she was interacting with adults, and perhaps if you've not had kids in school you might not see that big shift and change but I certainly noticed it in my daughter is she was okay on sort of small conversations with other kids, but she didn't really interact with other adults.

Vanessa Woozley : 20:17

So that's been a huge, huge change for her. Um, in terms of other changes, I would say, in our relationship, I would say I guess we've just grown closer. When she used to come back from school, the big thing for me was that she used to come home and explode and she was never like that at the weekend. She was very calm and chilled, but I think because she'd just been holding everything in at school the whole day, she'd come home and I just knew for the first hour just to meet her and not interact with her. If I asked her any questions she would just be like you know quite, and since she's been out of school we don't have that anymore. She's just. I mean, it's not perfect, of course there are situations, but we don't have that daily suppression of emotions. So they're much more free to just be there and she's much more chilled. That's been my biggest shift.

Cecilie Conrad: 21:18

I wanted to remind you, yes, but it's been five years since COVID started.

Vanessa Woozley : 21:23

I know it's a long time.

Cecilie Conrad: 21:24

It's not that reason when you have a whole shift.

Vanessa Woozley : 21:26

It's hard to think back.

Cecilie Conrad: 21:28

I mean it's a lot of her childhood.

Jesper Conrad: 21:30

Oh yes.

Cecilie Conrad: 21:30

So how did it? A lot of things happen in five years, especially for a child slash teenager.

Jesper Conrad: 21:39

Absolutely, absolutely.

Cecilie Conrad: 21:40

Yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 21:46

Being a single mom. There is, of course, also the dad out there. I know from me. The whole homeschooling wish came first from Cecilia, and I get the sense that it's the same with you. So how did he take the whole? Hey, I want to. Homeschooling wish came first from Cecilia, and I get the sense that it's the same with you. So how did he take the whole? Hey, I want to homeschool her. And then, when you later said, hey, I want to travel full time with her, how had that work been together? Has it been difficult, or do you have any advice how to do it?

Vanessa Woozley : 22:11

Yeah, again, it happened in stages. I always think you're going to say, right, I'm going to take them out, I'm going to do this. I was like, can we try this and see how it goes? It's always been my philosophy and if then, if it doesn't work, we'll try something else. So that was kind of how I approached it with him.

Vanessa Woozley : 22:30

I I did hit resistance, particularly with the school coming out of school. So his initial reaction was well, no one likes school, you just suck it up. It's a social, it's a social environment. And I would sort of gently go well, maybe it doesn't have to be like that. Could we just try it and see whether she, you know, has an appetite for learning and outside of school? Now he doesn't question it, she's doing, you know, she's loving what she's learning, she's happy. There's no question there. But I would say to people, rather than making an adamant decision, just exploring it as a trial, let's, why don't we try this and see what happens and keep both sides open and happy?

Vanessa Woozley : 23:19

I'm lucky that co-parenting is easy with my ex-husband. He's very amenable. So I'm sure there are certain things he would do differently and he's not happy with. But I think you have to choose your battles when you're divorced. And as long as you meet in a place where they both want the best for the child and they're happy, then generally you can find a place where you can meet.

Vanessa Woozley : 23:49

It was the same with traveling as well. I said, can we just try it for three months? And I'd always sort of traveled for a month at a time and then I said, can we just try three months? I mean, obviously he misses her a lot and he doesn't love it, but also he wants her to be happy and when she's finding community abroad and meeting other world schoolers, this really makes him happy. So and I'm always keeping him very much in the loop, I always message him lots and I tell him what she's learning and I send him lots of pictures of her having fun and life experiences and meeting other kids and that's really important to him. He really loves that when he just sees her having a good time and having fun. But yeah, it's always a little challenging and not easy because you have different ideas. He has things that he does at his house that I wouldn't do in my house, but we've learned to just pick our battles and co-parent as much as we can together.

Jesper Conrad: 24:57

Makes sense Absolutely.

Cecilie Conrad: 25:00

I kind of want to say that it's a good piece of advice for those getting started anyway, single or not, to try a little. You know, just not think it, as now I'm going to rearrange my life and it's going to be in this new way forever, because it's just an illusion anyway. Yeah, it's also an illusion. Well, any stability is an illusion. Change is all we we can count on, and it's also an illusion. Well, any stability is an illusion. Change is all we can count on and it's just a question of what changes will happen. So if someone's out there thinking, ok, I'm a single mom, I could maybe sell my house, buy a van, make it work, maybe just rent out the house and borrow a van and try three months and see what happens. And it's anyway just something you make up as you go so it can sound the way you said it. It's beautiful. But just so there's no misunderstanding, it's not necessarily a manipulation strategy to say can we try?

Cecilie Conrad: 26:08

this for three months, because the reality in the beginning I guess for you as well is this might be great, but I don't know. So now I'm trying it and then we'll see what happens. That same thing for us, we did. We rented our house out for a year and after 10 months we had a family meeting and decided to sell the house and keep going. But that was not given at the starting point.

Jesper Conrad: 26:31

I think it's important also to mention I only said yes to homeschooling for one year.

Cecilie Conrad: 26:37

You actually didn't. Your first was six months.

Jesper Conrad: 26:40

Maybe it was six months, and now here we are.

Cecilie Conrad: 26:42

I've been pushing it for 15 years.

Vanessa Woozley : 26:49

Yeah, that's so true and and and the same of now. People will say to me I think if you live this kind of life where you you think you've got everything mapped out and planned, people will often say to me back in england, so when are you going to stop traveling, are you going to settle down and are you going to? You know, are you going to buy a house? And? And I'm always like I don't know, I'm just happy with what I'm doing at the moment. It might change, I might suddenly feel like I want to put some roots down somewhere, who knows? But at the moment I'm very happy with how my life is set up. So you're right, you absolutely don't know what's around the corner.

Jesper Conrad: 27:27

Just take it as the moment arises. I think I have started sometimes having difficulties to answer when people ask so where have you been? Because it sometimes can sound so overwhelming, because this year we were Denmark January, then February, france, barcelona in March, then Vienna, then Budapest and now Denmark, and for people it sounds like I was also a stint in Prague.

Cecilie Conrad: 27:56

That's not that big. No, we did Prague as well.

Jesper Conrad: 27:59

Yeah, but.

Jesper Conrad: 28:02

I was at a meeting yesterday at my old job and have a lunch with them while I'm in Denmark visiting, and it was super cozy. And then they asked and I just I kind of get afraid of it sounding like, oh, you're just sitting here and working and I've just been out exploring the world, exploring the world and I have little difficulties how I should share it and talk about it, because I find my life pretty awesome. I'm very happy with what we do, but I don't think it's necessarily for everyone. I'm not sure they actually would enjoy it and I also see when they that what I see in their eyes maybe is that they think it's vacation and it's not. It's life. We are, you're working, I'm working, we are sitting and working. Many of the hours it's not being on vacation. How do you talk with people about these things? What is your take on it?

Vanessa Woozley : 29:03

I honestly, I think I feel into where the person's at. Normally if it's someone who I'm asking, because it really varies. Some people will say how was your holiday, in which case I may change the conversation to someone who's like how was the? How was traveling, which countries did you go to? So I kind of change my conversation normally to who I'm talking to if I know them well and I think that's being a little bit adaptable because for some people, you're right, it triggers them and they feel that, all right, it triggers that I wish I was doing it and they can get a little bit upset about it. So, yeah, I think it's being adaptable to the person that you can normally tell how they're taking the information that you're giving them and then I can decide how much information I can give them.

Vanessa Woozley : 30:02

I normally find even those with children at school are super interested in knowing what's out there and actually I wish I'd had that because I didn't. I didn't have anyone who was homeschooling when I was thinking about it, so I had nobody to refer to and it felt felt like a huge, particularly actually, as a single mom, I was trying to think about how I could make working and schooling together possible and that felt like a huge, overwhelming shift and I was like I just don't think I can do it. Once I'd done it, I was like why didn't I do this sooner? Because it was so much easier than I thought. So, yeah, I get.

Vanessa Woozley : 30:53

Those are the conversations I get, more probably than the traveling ones. Some people are super interested but I get more questions about because most people are pretty unhappy. I haven't met many parents who are happy with their children in school. They are very rare. Most parents are doing it out of what they think is necessity, or they're worried about family and friends. We'll say or they're worried they don't have enough time, or they think their kids are a little bit too wild and they won't be able to manage them. Those are the kind of reasons that they think that they can't do it, rather than oh, I'm super happy with my school and I'm really glad my child is in the school system.

Vanessa Woozley : 31:41

So those are the conversations I have more of.

Jesper Conrad: 31:43

Yeah.

Vanessa Woozley : 31:44

I don't know if you're the same probably.

Cecilie Conrad: 31:47

I don't know what conversations we have most. We do get the where have you been question. We get a lot of educational questions. We get the finance question. We often get that's funny. That's funny. Do you often get the how do you decide where to go? Next question I get that all the time um no, I normally.

Vanessa Woozley : 32:13

Where are you going next? Well, where we're going.

Jesper Conrad: 32:16

We are going to uk we're coming over yes good well you oh yeah, there's some islands and something on the way. Something on the way?

Cecilie Conrad: 32:24

yeah, we're going to going to Germany and then Amsterdam and then England.

Jesper Conrad: 32:27

Oh, yeah, yeah, but yeah okay whatever.

Cecilie Conrad: 32:30

No, it's just funny. It's because the questions we get are sometimes not. Those are not the things that are hard to decide. Those are not the actual obstacles. Those are the things that are more or less given.

Jesper Conrad: 32:46

And then there are other things where we have to stop and think a lot. So that's just different. One of the things that, um my mind is pondering a lot around these days is, um, the norm, the norm of normality, what everyone does and how we have grown up to think that the normal life is going to school, living in vicinity of the school, close approximately around it, going to work, have a job, be there for 40 years and then you retire. If you're lucky, you retire early. And, having lived outside this kind of norm for the last seven years, I am starting to trying to become better at and I'm not doing a really good job of it now, I know, but trying to see if I can explain what I see from the outside. So, you who have been outside of the norm for the last five years, what are you seeing?

Cecilie Conrad: 34:34

Besides parents not being happy about having kids in school, that's a good point. How many parents do you meet that are happy about the school? I mean, that's a question to pick up for the listeners, maybe. Yeah, ask them.

Vanessa Woozley : 34:48

I haven't met them yet are there other things?

Cecilie Conrad: 34:51

you see, now that you're more out, I mean, you were probably a little bit outside before I think your mindset was I was very outside, yeah but what do you see in the mainstream that you can point that now that you see, you think you see because you're outside of it oh, I mean, I think it happened before I was traveling.

Vanessa Woozley : 35:13

I think I was feeling this way for probably about 15 years and not really feeling like I could relate to most of what was happening in society.

Vanessa Woozley : 35:23

If I'm honest, I think that's a waking up process though, isn't it?

Vanessa Woozley : 35:29

For a lot of people, is you're living the sort of program of the nine to five and putting yourself into debt to buy a house, to buy a car, to go on holiday four weeks of the year I mean, that's the traditional way of living your life and putting your kids in school and then there becomes a point for a lot of people you're like there has to be more, and that's often the waking up process, I think, for a lot of people. Where and when that happens, you suddenly go oh my goodness, what dysfunction you're living in, and it becomes harder to relate to that lifestyle and perhaps integrating. It becomes easier to relate to people who are living that lifestyle, because you start to understand the dysfunction that they're in and perhaps how they're not feeling happy with it, because it's often that feeling of like there's more, there's more, which people are trying to dumb down with alcohol or food or whatever their addiction is. And then, when you see it differently, you live your life differently and you don't let those norms continue.

Jesper Conrad: 36:44

Continue. When I look back at being 18, 19 years old, I was standing at Roskilde Festival up in front of the big orange tent and shouting, together with thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of other youth to a Race Against the Machine concert, where it was fuck you, I won't do what you tell me. And we saw the matrix a little after. It's like, oh yeah, it's just a dream, this kind of reality. We want to break out and be free. And now sometimes I can be like hey, we were standing there together. Where are you now? You meant it then, you felt it. Then what happened?

Jesper Conrad: 37:24

I think one of the things that happens is conformity. I think one of the things that happens is conformity. It's really dumping us down or maybe medicating or something. And I have lived the life of going to an office for many, many years. I had this young, rebellious soul, like I think all of us have. When we are young, we'd want to do something different than our parents and do something different than the system.

Jesper Conrad: 38:04

We watch Matrix, we sing along with the songs, and then something happens that makes us choosing different tools of zoning out, and I can just see after we, the last seven years, have been following our dreams more, living more in according with our values. I can see how that also has changed, that I live more in according with my values of how I should treat my body and what I should eat, and that's a change I didn't see coming. When I was young I had a lot of allergies, so I had like a long list of all the stuff you couldn't eat, of all the additives in the food that was allergic or could give allergies. I saw that and I was eating very pure when I was young. And then came all those years with crappy food and meat plus 25 kilos. And now, the more I try to live in accordance with our values, then I've also come back to this you can almost say pureness of the heart I had as being a young boy. I think we are actually quite pure when we are young and then something happens.

Cecilie Conrad: 39:27

Should we talk about health and the healthy life? Because?

Cecilie Conrad: 39:31

one thing I was thinking before when we started traveling full time. One of my worries as a mom of I had four children. Unfortunately only took three with me, as one happened to be an adult. So I was taking three children on the road and for the past seven years they've been growing up traveling full time. And one of the things I worried about and thought I have to put some energy in here is how do we stay healthy? Because lots of people who travel only for vacation, they know how it slips. You know, you have a little too much ice cream, you have a little too much of the good white wine, you have a little too much of whatever. You come home you have to go on a diet and do some cleaning up, or maybe not, and then it's worse next year. So but we've been neighbors and, uh, I think we do pretty well, but you certainly do better I mean, it's my passion.

Vanessa Woozley : 40:23

Um so say that again. Oh, talk about it, talk about about it.

Cecilie Conrad: 40:29

How do you super health from a van?

Vanessa Woozley : 40:33

I mean, it's my all encompassing passion, so I love talking about health, if anyone asks, I guess my journey happened when my daughter was born and she had I'd been interested in health before that, but she got really severe eczema all over her body and I healed it with food and lifestyle changes and getting the chemicals out and toxins and I've never really looked back. And I think it's a really important question. I guess it depends on how you treat traveling. If you treat traveling like it's a holiday and therefore what a lot of people do is they let go on holiday and then they just eat all the crap that they want, eat out for dinner, eat lots of sugar and ice cream and drink lots of wine, then that can become a really unhealthy habit over a longer term if you're traveling, a really unhealthy habit over a longer term if you're traveling, I don't More from the fact of the point of view which I know we've talked about is I want to feel good all of the time, and how I have learned through trial and error is that certain foods and certain things in terms of how I manage my health make me feel really good and if I don't do that, then I don't feel good. So it becomes from. That becomes the driving factor, and I would say I had quite an addictive personality, but the health thing it worked in my favor.

Vanessa Woozley : 42:04

You know, it became a bit of a. I turned all those unhealthy addictions towards health and nutrition and food and it became a bit of a. Uh, I turned all those unhealthy addictions towards health, the nutrition and food and it became this sort of spiral and I and I started sort of changing, changing more, more things and feeling better, having more energy, not having dips, not having crashes, not getting sick, and so it doesn't feel like a huge chore for me to manage my health in the van. I do carry some health tools with me as well and it makes it me a better because I'm an industrial therapist. It makes it easier to see my clients, because when they say things to me like I can't do it because, or there's certain situations where I can't manage this and I can't, I always say, well, if I can do it while I'm traveling and I managed to do this, then anybody can. It becomes a an overriding choice to feel good in every moment and that's what aspires me to eat well and look after myself.

Vanessa Woozley : 43:41

So I do. I do carry some things like a blender and a juicer in my van, but it's interesting to me how most people would prioritize, so I know you guys do. We'll prioritize a coffee machine, or you know having a wine fridge, or three, or a wine fridge you know those. In most houses those become the priority, and for me the priority becomes the other houses. So it depends where your priorities sit and align.

Cecilie Conrad: 44:14

So, just for the record, I'm carrying three coffee machines and a blender.

Vanessa Woozley : 44:19

Yes, she does. She does mitigate it with the blender and you have a lot of health.

Cecilie Conrad: 44:24

Coffee is part of my health regime.

Jesper Conrad: 44:27

I can assure you that. How can you win life without a high speed blender? I don't know. I don't know how people do it.

Vanessa Woozley : 44:32

You find a way. You need a bigger battery pack, but it's amazing how people will find a bigger battery pack for other things. To me, it's just as important having it helping you, because if you don't have your house, you don't enjoy anything. I mean, I know you guys know this too. You've had some life situations with health challenges Most of us have and I don't want people to get to that place in order for them to reprioritize For me. I know that everything in my life goes much better when I feel good, feel healthy, feel alert, have energy. I'm not sick, you know. Everything just goes better. So that's a priority for me. I hope that more people will get there, but we're not quite there yet so now you said why you do it.

Cecilie Conrad: 45:23

Yeah, how I do it. I worry seven years ago was how do I do it? Okay, how do I bring my blender in my bus?

Cecilie Conrad: 45:33

yeah how do I get the fresh organic stuff to put in the blender? Yeah, where's the clean water? What do I serve the fresh organic stuff to put in the blender? Where's the clean water? What do I serve my kids? When the bus is actually driving, I have only 20 minutes for cooking, so my challenge was cooking for more than two people. So I'm just curious what's your regime? How do you make? Do you take extra time out for this? Is there a weekday where you would drive to an organic? One of my things is I can't find organic produce many places and I end up buying things that are sprayed and after 10 days I start feeling it in the joint.

Vanessa Woozley : 46:13

It's pretty rare for me not to find organic. I have been to a couple of places where I haven't. Then I always buy things with skin on or I do my best to manage it and then I'll do a lot of juicing to kind of mitigate that. I do notice the difference and the effects. But most places I actually find it's better than England. Often I can find organic everywhere. So it does mean I go out of my way a little bit Sometimes. You've seen me do it. Sometimes we've been traveling.

Vanessa Woozley : 46:48

But people will prioritize other things For me. I will prioritize finding organic. Am I particularly I'm not particularly routine driven in terms of I have really healthy routines in my day? Do I food prep? Do I have a specific day where I go to the shop? Not really, it's when I'm running low. I'll go find the place, but I will search until I find it. I mean, we're so lucky. Now. My daughter always thinks it's incredible how we ever managed without Google Maps. But Google Maps will find you an organic place wherever you are in the world, which is quite phenomenal. It's changed the way. I mean if you think how our parents traveled and how we can travel now, it's just completely different. You can find places gluten-free cafes, vegan cafes, whatever your preferences are anywhere in the world at the touch of a button. So as much as I hate overuse of technology, it has brought around this amazing use of being able to find healthier places and healthier things to do.

Vanessa Woozley : 47:56

How do I do it? So I mean I have a big cupboard where I have my Vitamix, I have my juicer and I also I can't think what else I did. I mean I do take a bit of a pantry with me. So before I go, I know if I'm going to go for three or four months. I will stock up on things like a clean water filter. I will stock up on supplements. I will stock up on, say, some greens powders, things that I know will be a little bit more challenging and probably a little bit more expensive abroad.

Vanessa Woozley : 48:33

Some things aren't, so that does make, I guess, the packing perhaps a little bit more challenging. I do sometimes envy those people who just pick up a passport and some clothes and just go. I don't perhaps travel like that. I put a little bit more thought process into it of how am I going to manage my water, how am I going to manage my supplements, how am I going to and then I will pack the van with you know, nice, but then in a way I always that's why I love being in a van I have everything with me, whereas how I used to travel was I'd turn up at a place and I'd try and find certain ingredients and certain things and try and pack it all in a suitcase. Now I have all of my health tools with me and I actually very rarely like going and staying anywhere else because I really lost my van space.

Vanessa Woozley : 49:27

I love, as you guys know, it's hard to get me out of it and I love the outdoor. I mean, we're not always in the van, but I love that outdoor. That's why I like being in the warm countries. I love that outdoor lifestyle of just being outside in the van, but I love that outdoor. That's why I like being in the warm countries. I love that outdoor lifestyle of just being outside of the van but having everything in my van and my home with me. It wouldn't be for everyone, I totally get that, but for me it's a great lifestyle and I love it.

Cecilie Conrad: 49:50

Isn't it also? So this is just my experience and I'm not doing as well as you are not trying to be smarter around the healthy lifestyle, but I think, for traveling short term or full time trying to stay healthy, we are going to eat anyway. So if we put just a little bit of thought into it before we get hungry, it doesn't have to be this you know Instagrammable food prep stack of perfectly prepared stuff, but just a little bit of. Okay, we are going to eat. What do we want to eat and is it available? That's not a big process. That's something like 10 minutes in the morning just scanning.

Cecilie Conrad: 50:41

For me it is how many people am I feeding today? What are their preferences? What do they need? Do I more or less have it? How can I make sure I have it at the right time? Do I need to do any prepping or can we just make it up as we go? If I just do the salts, apples are pretty easy to prep by opening the box. Or can we just make it up as we go? If I just do the thoughts? You know, apples are pretty easy to prep by opening the box.

Vanessa Woozley : 51:05

So yeah, and some things travel. You're right, some things travel better than others, don't they?

Vanessa Woozley : 51:08

You kind of learn that I'm someone who always has to have a full fridge. So if my fridge is running low I'm going to always go and find the organic shop and have it always full, because I don't like to be in a situation where, well, either one of us are hungry and we haven't got anything to eat, so we've always got a full fridge. But you're right, I mean fruits travel. I can put them in a box in the back of the van mostly, and have huge amounts of fruit in there. Some vegetables, like root vegetables, travel very, very easily, Maybe the salad stuff. You only have to top up that stuff in the fridge. But you kind of learn how you can shop in a really good way. So quite often in the van I'll try and buy things that I know will last a little bit longer and I can keep a good supply in the back of the van too.

Jesper Conrad: 51:55

I would like to talk a little about comfort food, as I recently have taken up a new challenge of no shitty snacks, no crap food bought in supermarkets. And then it's inspired by this 12-year-old daughter of the house here and she's just like so clean about it and I was like, oh, if she can do it, I can do it. But to talk about comfort food because there's something fun around it, I find it interesting that I have had a mentality that could be like oh, I'm stressed out, it could be really good with a glass of wine to get the shoulders down, or oh, it has been busy, or this has been difficult. I would eat some crisp or some chips or some other food that it actually works in the moment because it does something, but then I feel more shit the day after because I feel a little more fat or a little feel the carbs negatively, I don't know what it is. But what do you do for comfort food now that you are quite clean in your way of living?

Vanessa Woozley : 53:10

Honestly, I would say that a big part of my journey and it's kind of where I've been helping people is support with the emotional eating. So don't get me wrong, there's a huge part of enjoying food and ceremony and eating nice foods. But if you're eating foods from an emotional perspective, then that's normally somewhere that I try and help people. That's normally somewhere that I try and help people because no amount of food is ever enough to help, that. It might feel like it for that instant, but you'll know that it's not really worked because you'll keep eating and that's a big sign that it's become an emotional crutch, like any other crutch in life.

Vanessa Woozley : 53:54

And I think it's very, very common and actually one of the more accepted addition addictions I think we have in society more than perhaps some other things, and it's a real shame because this is why we've got a huge obesity crisis, because people don't necessarily look at it as an addiction. They think that people are lazy or, you know, they get all these sort of other tarnished things. But I think tackling separating the ceremony and the beautiful comfort foods as you sort of talked about, you know there's a time for a celebration, a party and having a cake and having. I know we've enjoyed going out for healthy cake and a coffee and that feels like a really, really nice celebration, but if you're using it as a crutch to support stress or emotions, it might be something that you want to look at oh, I am looking at it.

Vanessa Woozley : 54:50

I mean you specifically, but I would say you know, I mean it's everybody. It's very prevalent in society and it was definitely something a huge part of my journey too yeah, I was stroking everyone has it.

Cecilie Conrad: 55:01

I don't think you should feel judged if you listen and you feel, oh, maybe sometimes I eat my emotions, or I eat for emotional reasons, or I mean it's everyone has some of it yeah, absolutely, it's just a question of how do we cope with it, and that could actually be our. How do you get in touch with Vanessa, because she can help with that.

Jesper Conrad: 55:25

Yes, because, vanessa, it is time to round up the podcast. It has been really wonderful hanging out with you and I look forward to doing it again, maybe parked up next to each other somewhere, well maybe in Tarragona, maybe in Tarragona, maybe in Tarragona.

Cecilie Conrad: 55:41

Oh no, no, we're seeing each other in England first.

Vanessa Woozley : 55:44

Yes, I know it's going to be lovely yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 55:46

But, vanessa, for people who have listened to us talk, listened to your knowledge about food and health, how is it you are of service to the world.

Vanessa Woozley : 55:57

So I have a coaching container. I'm a nutritional therapist but I do other things, so I do NLP, I do EFT and I also do family constellations so looking at ancestral health patterns that run through the family and I take people either in a three or a six-month coaching container and you can find out more details on my website and please do get in touch and you can also have a free 20-minute conversation and see whether it's something that you would like to work with me on and see whether we are a good fit, first of all, to work on together.

Jesper Conrad: 56:33

So we will put the website in the show notes, but for the people just listening, vanessa, please share it.

Vanessa Woozley : 56:41

My website is thelifesutra, like the Karma Sutra, but thelifesutracom.

Jesper Conrad: 56:47

Fantastic, easy. It has been a pleasure. Thanks a lot for your time.

Vanessa Woozley : 56:51

Oh, thank you so much. Lovely to see you both.